- Locked due to inactivity on Oct 16, '17 3:54am
Thread Topic: About Christianity
maham fatima NoviceIf you have commited sins but you believe in god then first we will be punished (we can also be punished in life) and then goto heaven
Oh, this is going to get confusing. Me: Christian. Maham: Muslim. 2kan: No religion. Wolflove: something else. All with different ideas.
Anyway, I suppose I can't agree with you maham, though it'd be great if we could. Suppose you didn't even know what God was offering, lived a terrible life, became a bad person, then heard about God. From 2kan's reasoning, you would be a bad person and couldn't go to heaven. But it wouldn't be fair, right, because you had had no knowledge of God. So God makes it where anyone can accept Him, no matter how much sin you carry. No one is ever too far gone. When you do accept Him, He starts to transform your life the closer you get to him. His desires become yours and you become more Christ-like. (Meaning, Jesus was perfect, so we're being made into His image when we accept Him.) So, accepting God and meaning it, will transform you into what society would call a "good person". The closer you are to God, the more you want to turn away from evil. But it all starts with accepting God.
Now, you say people who are just good should get into heaven. But who is really that good? Have you ever known someone who has not messed up? Never sinned? Truth is we can never get there on our own, not by our own puny human strength. No matter how many good things you do, it will never be enough without Jesus.
No one is perfect, that's true, but who says God has a good opinion on right and wrong? God says that, that's who. And if you're right and God did plan for everything to be perfect and we are just going against his plan when we sin. That sounds a little bit like a dictator or something. You don't do exactly what I want and you get punished. You don't accept me as your leader? Punishment for you. You talk bad about me and you'll be punished. Seriously, we are taught that not everything goes your way and you just have to accept it, sometimes people won't do exactly what you tell them to even if you have authority over them, and sometimes, sure, it has to be punished, but for small things it should be just a scolding or a warning or something. Ever wonder why shoplifting an extremely cheap and common thing is punished way less severally than if you killed a bunch of people? It's because shoplifting that thing is a small and petty crime that does harm to pretty much no one, and killing a bunch of people harms a lot of people. So why does God punish everything anyone does that wasn't exactly what he wanted like you killed everyone on Earth? Sure, he'll forgive you if you accept him, but what if you never hear about him for your entire life? Will you perish in Hell because you didn't accept God, an eternity in agony your only company being demons and the majority of the human race? And why doesn't he just forgive people? A good God, father, leader, whatever, would forgive you even if you don't accept him, especially if he loves you.
I never said only perfect people should go to Heaven, I said only good people. And by good people I mean people who often do good things and don't sin that much, sure, they do something bad every now and again, but no one's perfect.
Ok so, let me start at the beginning of your paragraph.
You have to understand that God is perfect. He's never sinned, He's never messed up. He's a supernatural being that literally created everything. So when He makes laws, and tells us right from wrong, then it's true, since God cannot lie. Besides, I'm sure you've seen His definition of right and wrong in the bible, do you find any fault there? Don't murder, don't steal, etc.
The punishment is there if you mess up, true. But God has already taken the punishment for us! That is loving. He's taken it and died for people who don't even love Him, who don't accept Him. So God does forgive you, even if you don't accept Him. Whether you choose to believe in that forgiveness is the question.
You aren't punished for every small thing you do. Well, you are, but that's later in hell. I meant on earth. And when you accept God, you are already forgiven for every sin you will do in the future. I still mess up, but that doesn't mean I'm going to hell. I accepted God, so that's it. I'm free forever.
There is verse in the bible that says one sin is as bad as another. Sin is sin. It doesn't say in the bible that murder is worse than cheating on a test. That is society defining what is the most evil. God lives outside of society's rules (hence the whole "holy" thing, which means set apart. don't worry about that). Yes, we all receive the same punishment. That's God treating everyone fairly, no favoritism. But we also all have the same chance to escape death. You just got to believe, accept, and confess that you need Him. That's it. Then you don't have to worry about anything else.
As for people who have never had any knowledge of God, who literally couldn't, it's not over for them. There is something in the bible how innocents, like an infant that dies, will go to heaven. I really don't know much about that. I'll ask around and come back to you on that.
Ooh, one line you wrote. A dictator. Close. A monarch. He's my King, and now that I've accepted Him, I am His child. I've been adopted into His family. And what's the child of a king? That's right, He makes us princes and princesses. Who wouldnt feel special now? (Sorry this has nothing to do with what you said lol)
Even good people. It's still not enough. Trying to get into heaven on your own is like trying to push a camel through the eye of a needle. There's a verse that says something like: for man does not get into heaven by works alone, but through the gift of God.
And like my other example. Suppose you had been bad all your life, because you never even knew Jesus's name. You wouldn't be good enough to get into heaven, by your own reasoning. It'd be too late for you. But with God, He makes it where you can still get into heaven--that's loving. It's not oh well uou heard about me too late and now you're a bad person so you're going to hell. God doesn't work that way. Anyone can accept Him, change their life to resemble Jesus, and go to heaven.
I have two words for you: Giant. Needle. Which means really rich people can easily get into Heaven.
Anyway, who told us God can't sin and God can't lie? Oh yeah, God did, so how can you tell if he's telling the truth? Also, if God has already taken the punishment, that by the way, he created, why is there still punishment left for the rest of us? And I don't think he has forgiven everyone, because if he did he wouldn't punish people, that's what forgiveness is, having mercy on someone, not punishing them for what they'v done.
God wasnt the one who took the punishment, his son Jesus Christ did.
get it right
Jesus is God's son and God, so when he prays to God he's praying to himself, it's weird.
Ooh, I knew this would come down to the Trinity. Confusing stuff. Yes to both of you. Jesus took the punishment, Jesus is God's son, and Jesus is God. Even I don't fully understand it. I need the apple representation lol. 3 in 1. 3 parts of an apple, all 1 apple. Praying to yourself. In a way, I suppose. But Jesus was fully man, while also being fully God. So there's a difference, yet they're the same.
I'm not going there.
RelevantNerdist, if you have anything to say, please do. I'd like to hear your opinion on this.
1 moment, 2kan.
Or two hours. Ok. Giant needle, haha. Usinga simile here. Trying to get into heaven on your own is like trying to squeeze a normal-sized camel through a normal-sized needle (and with the camel unharmed).
God isn't lying. The pharises (am I spelling this right?) and the other teachers of the law tried for years to catch Jesus lying. They never succeeded. Evolutionists and countless other's of today still have not been able to find anything wrong with God's words. How do I know He isn't lying? Because He's kept every promise He's ever made, He's fufilled every prophecy ever proclaimed, and His love has never failed me. In fact, I read a statistics once where the chances of God (or Jesus, relevantnerdist) fufilling every prophecy over the years, which He has done (there's proof of that), is about as coincidental as finding one thin mint cookie (with all the icing licked off) in enough regular thin mint cookies to cover the whole state of Texas. Oh, I didn't explain that very well. Suppose the state of Texas was covered in thin mint cookies 3 ft high. Like, not an inch of the ground can be seen. Then you take 1 thin mint, lick the icing off, and throw it into the other thin mint cookies, and mix it around. The chances of you finding that licked off cookie is the same as God fufilling every prophecy. And God has fufilled them. Every different man that prophosized over hundreds of years, all were completed. It's in the bible, which contains the history of all that. How can anyone believe that God can fail, that He's making this all up?
2kan, not all punishment is bad. It's like when you're a little kid and you do something wrong. Your parents then punish you. Why? Because they want you to stop doing the wrong thing, right? And why is that? Because they care about you, they want you to turn out to be a decent person in life. They punish out of love (hopefully that's the case with your parents, in any event, it should be). That's God. The punishment is out of love.
I know, but you see, when your parents punish you the punishment has an ending and you have a life after it to be a good person, but with God the punishment never ends and you might become a better person, but it doesn't matter because you're in Hell, and it's unlikely you'll become a better person, you'll probably just hate everything, especially God.
Of course, when you're in hell as your punishment, then you're out of time. He gave you all the time you needed here on earth to accept Him, so it's not like you can say you had no choice. The mercy is Jesus dying. He's already done that! For you! Even though you don't love Him back.
God doesn't want people to go to hell. If He did, then why would He surrender himself to the Romans and get crucified? That wouldn't even make any sense. Why would He just let Himself die? And for people not even born yet. The only answer is love.
God will make corrections to us too, here on earth. So we can realize our mistakes and repent. You have so much time to choose Him.
Y'know, I used to be Christian, do you know why I'm not anymore? It's because I just stopped believing in God, I couldn't help it, I just questioned his existence, thought about science and stuff, and I came to the conclusion that he might not be real, maybe he is, I don't know. And now, even if I try to believe and accept him, I can't, I keep the door open for him or any other gods to be real, but I don't straight out believe in any.
Anyway, why did he have to die? Couldn't he just forgive us? Couldn't he accept us for what we are? And besides, what did Jesus dying even do? He stopped us from going to the worst part of Hell no matter what? If that's the case, which I don't know if it is, he didn't have to die, God could have just gotten rid of that part of Hell. And if he died so people didn't automatically go to Hell and they could go to Heaven as long as they accepted God, well, God could have just made it that way, he didn't need to die.
He makes corrections to us? That sounds like he controls us, even if just a little bit, it's still controlling and that's not loving, now is it?
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